Talk:Christine McVie (album)

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I found some Billboard issues that talk about the Laserdisc/Videodisk version of the album (the difference doesn't seem to be clear". This one talks about a special promotion by Pioneer Artists; this other one talks about the contents of this Pioneer Artists release of the album (issued along with Vestron Video Home Video); and this last one has an a full page ad for it (page 5). This ad issue also also has an article about "attorney and video entrepreneur" Mickey Shapiro that says the following:

"'When I started doing these shows, the dream was to have a coordinated launch for an album tying a long-form program, a clip and an album together from the outset,' Shapiro recalls. 'It didn't work well then, because you have to cover three points if such a project is to work: a home video company, a record label, and a cable outlet like MTV.' Shapiro does contend that he's gotten closer to the mark on more recent projects. Christine McVie's current Warner Bros. album was bracketed by two separate MTV specials, with a documentary preceding the recording's release, a clip added to push the initial single, and a concert special aired a week after the album's shipment."

I'm not sure if we can account for all of these releases related to the album. The documentary might be one of those two specials, as suggested here, but I'm not sure if it's three separate videos. It seems to talk about the recording process of the album, so it might help this article. Only part one seems to be available on YouTube, however, as the parts posted on the Ledge Forums are not accessible anymore.

I also wanted to ask two things. Should the information on the music videos for the first two singles be kept in "Recording and composition" or be moved to the "Release" section? And should the article's rating be changed as it is far more complete now and in active improvement? Juand.1974 (talk) 16:43, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can check on the Ledge to see if there's a way to access part 2 of that recording. I checked to see if the video was archived, but unfortunately that is not the case. To my understanding, the video album has a slightly different track list from the laserdisc. AllMusic has the track list of the video here. [1] Based on the laserdisc videos posted to YouTube, ( [2] and [3]) the laserdisc includes "Too Much is Not Enough", which does not appear on what I assume is the videodisc (which seems to be what's included on the AllMusic link). However, "Don't Stop" and "Songbird" appear to be unique to the videodisc. Some practice footage of "The Challenge" and the studio version of "Love Will Show Us How" is present on the the laserdisc, although the remainder of it the footage consists of one of her live concerts.

I would be open to move the music video information to the release section. Right now, I'm planning a few further expansions of the article based on three sources: The Press Kit article discusses the Montreux recording studio in greater detail, so I would like to incorporate some of that information here. The other two will come from the recent Todd Sharp interview and the 1984 Christine McVie documentary. After that, I plan to move on to work on The Visitor, which has some untapped potential.

For the assessment, C class would be pretty safe. Once we get all of our desired updates to the article worked out, we can consider the idea of nominating it for good article status. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 18:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, thanks! The music videos do fit better in the Release section. I'll keep looking for info regarding the laser/video disc releases, to hopefully add to the article. I'll also be helping around, see what other info I can find. Juand.1974 (talk) 02:53, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found the video album and laser disc releases on eBay. I chose the best image quality items I could find, if you'd like to take a look. It seems that the video album was released both in VHS and CED, and that the laser disc was either made or released in 1983, perhaps around the time the Country Club concert was shot? It also seems that Pioneer Artists is related to the laser disc and Vestron Video to the video album

Video album (cool poster):

VHS: 1, 2.

CED: 1, 2. Other links: 3, 4

Laserdisc:

1, 2, 3 Juand.1974 (talk) 18:02, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So it seems that Christine started writing "The Smile I Live For" way back during the Tusk Tour, as evidenced by this jam with Stevie, 1. However, I'm not sure if this would be enough to be able to include this information on the article, as it is the only source related to it I can find. I want to know what you think about this.

I also wanted some help and second opinions related to the documentary, as I want to make sure I understood it right. From 8:08 and 8:22 Russ, Christine and Todd are all at sat down at what appears to be a restaurant table. Russ asks Christine if she wrote all the material on the record, to which she says no and talks about Todd. It then cuts to an interview with Todd in the studio talking and a recording studio video of "Love Will Show Us How". At 13:46, it cuts back to that same "restaurant table" setting and Todd talks about a list of everything they had done, with Billy Burnette and Collin(?) and says they counted "16, 17 or so" (or does he say songs?), but that some were "disqualified for one reason or the other". What I gather now is that he and Christine are talking about songs they had written before recording began, but I'm not actually sure. Could he be talking about actual recordings or demo tapes they made? Also, who is "Collin"? if that even is who he mentions. I'd appreciate somebody else's help and opinions on this. Thank you! Juand.1974 (talk) 18:11, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The answers that I am about to provide are speculative. I just checked the Blue Letter Archives to see if there's any additional information on "The Smile I Live For", but I unfortunately came back empty handed. On what Sharp is saying about this mysterious Colin figure, I was unaware that anybody with that that name was associated with this project. However, McVie did co-write "Wish You Were Here" on the Mirage album with Colin Allen, who was an alumni of John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers, a band that once featured John McVie. However, there is no guarantee that Sharp is referring to him in this video. With the 16-17 songs mentioned, we know that "Too Much is Not Enough" is the only cut song from the album. As such, the remaining tracks likely never made it beyond the demo stage. If anybody has a better answer on any of these questions, I would be curious to hear it.

I also have a question related to the touring band: We listed Todd Sharp, Steve Ferrone, George Hawkins on bass, Stephen Brunton, Billy Burnette and Eddy Quintela as members of the touring band based on a hodgepodge of references. For most of these members, there is no uncertainty over their involvement with McVie's 1984, but we do need some clarification on the rhythm guitarist. While the MTV documentary shows Burnette rehearsing with the band, it appears that Stephen Brunton actually replaced him entirely. McVie did mention in a March 1984 interview with BAM that she intended to bring Burnette on the road again (seeing that he played with her for the December 1983 exclusive performance), nearly all other articles that I have come across mention Sharp and Brunton as the guitarists. As an example, McVie does not mention Burnette on her performance on American Bandstand. [4] How should we address this in the article? Dobbyelf62 (talk) 20:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, thank you so much for your help. I'm gonna try clarifying the 16 or 17 songs things in the article (on the Outtakes section), and I think it being Colin Allen is a great theory. Since we can't be really sure, I won't dwell on it, but it did pique my curiosity.

Second of all, I was wondering the exact same thing about the band line-up. It does appear to be that the original plan, before they toured, was to include Billy, as suggested by the BAM magazine article. It would make sense, because, as you said, he was part of her band in the MTV concert special. But I guess things happened and they ended up going with Stephen instead. I suggest we clarify the info and say that he was originally selected to be on the touring band but that they ended up touring with Stephen.

I did also find something interesting in the Blue Letter Archives. During some of the shows they performed a song called "Guitar Bug" (1, 2), that was described as being Chuck Berry like. It seems interesting, as Billy had a track with that name on his 1985 albumwhich, according to Genius (ik not the best of sources) was written by him and Todd. It also would fit his rockabilly style. Perhaps the track dates back to the time when they were working on songs for Christine's album. So even without Billy, they still performed one of his tracks. This is all speculation of course, as we can't really confirm its the same song. Juand.1974 (talk) 22:02, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also found this picture submitted by Todd to the Penguin Q&A archived website thing of Christine's touring band, which also confirms Billy's absence. It would be great to add it to the article, which I'm going to try to do. Juand.1974 (talk) 22:07, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, "Guitar Bug" can be viewed here [5]. During this clip, Sharp mentions that the song was written by Burnette, although Burnette's vocals are not present on this recording. And yes, "Guitar Bug" is indeed a Burnette composition. Thanks for bringing up the photo from Sharp's Q&A. That was one of many factors that made me question Burnette's involvement on the tour. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 00:55, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wow, that's really cool. Thanks for sharing. I expanded the info and clarified it more. I guess I'd need to try and cite the sentence that talks about him being in the MTV concert, though. Juand.1974 (talk) 01:22, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Burnette is not mentioned in the band introduction of her 30 April 1984 Kansas City show [6] (she announced the members after the conclusion of "Keeping Secrets" at the 39 minute 50 second mark. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 01:41, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dobbyelf62 I wanted to ask you for your opinion on something. Todd recalls in the recent interview, as you put, that Clapton listened to the record and decided on which track to play. However, the press kit states that:

"And when Eric Clapton asked, 'So what am I going to do on your record?', Christine assigned him the guitar solo on "The Challenge," a song named for now-ex-husband John McVie's boat. 'John and Eric started out in John Mayall's Bluesbreakers together so it was kind of a nice connection there,' she says."

I want to know which source we should believe more. As it had been so long ago its of course possible that Todd misremembered, however he provides enough details to suggest Clapton actually did listen to the whole album. I do believe that the press kit quote and explanation of why she chose that song for him make more sense though. Nonetheless, because of the kit's promotional purpose, we can't assume its completely correct.

There's also a smaller issue I noticed. Gary Graff wrote that "Eric Clapton heard about McVie's album from Winwood, and he called to offer his guitar virtuosity." However, McVie later said that she "clearly remembered" asking him to play on it. I feel like this is also said somewhere else, but I can't recall the place at the moment.

Let me know what you think we should do Juand.1974 (talk) 20:43, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's time to put our detective hats on! Seeing that Sharp was recalling events from 40 years ago in this interview, it is certainly possible that he misremembered exactly how certain events took place. Based on Sharp's account, Clapton listened to a few songs before settling on "The Challenge". He then spent roughly hour recording a few takes for it and left soon after.

The rest of this information is more speculative: During the aforementioned time span, Clapton likely did provide some feedback for the guitar tracks. The question is if McVie had a preference as to which song Clapton played on. Sharp gave the impression that Clapton also had some input in making this decision, while a few other references (such as the press kit) indicate that this decision was made by McVie. I would hesitate to take everything included in the press kit as gospel and we should also be careful with minor details recounted from four decades ago. Most of what Sharp is saying largely aligns with what we already know, albeit with a few other interesting stories sprinkled in about his experiences from the recording sessions, which have been very consistent with other sources that we have found for the most part.

In the article, we can still include that McVie wanted Clapton to play on "The Challenge". Perhaps we should avoid an explicit mention of Clapton selecting the song himself, but we can include the information about Clapton listening to other songs on the album. I also remember in the documentary that one of the touring members had mentioned that they were trying to work with Clapton, but they were unsure if the session would actually occur. This was filmed before the actual session with Clapton took place. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 21:30, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I think that approach is the smartest. And indeed, the documentary seems to have been made throughout the album's recording process, but before Clapton's work. It's Christine who says it, at around 23:29. Perhaps it was made during the break between the 2 sessions with Winwood, as the "One in a Million" performance only features Christine's vocals. Thank you for your help! Juand.1974 (talk) 23:58, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also found this in favor of Eric picking the song, from the 2000 Q&A session. This makes him misremembering less likely. However, I say we should continue your approach and avoid any concrete mention.

"Yes got to meet both Eric and Steve during Christine's LP. Spent about a week at Steve's place in England, and an afternoon just pretty much hanging in the studio w/ Eric while he listened to the record and chose a song to play on. Both really great people." Juand.1974 (talk) 01:45, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the article's current version, I used the release date that Lesley-Ann Jones states in the Songbird biography, on the "Retreat" chapter: Friday 27 January 1984 (you can find it through Library Genesis). However, Billboard's next day issue, on the 28th, already shows the album as a new entry on the Rock Albums & Top Tracks chart (page 24), which suggests it had been released for longer. It also shows an ad for it on page 122. The article on Mickey Shapiro's work also suggests it wasn't released on the 27th, as it is stated that:

"'When I started doing these shows, the dream was to have a coordinated launch for an album tying a long-form program, a clip and an album together from the outset,' Shapiro recalls. 'It didn't work well then, because you have to cover three points if such a project is to work: a home video company, a record label, and a cable outlet like MTV.' Shapiro does contend that he's gotten closer to the mark on more recent projects. Christine McVie's current Warner Bros. album was bracketed by two separate MTV specials, with a documentary preceding the recording's release, a clip added to push the initial single, and a concert special aired a week after the album's shipment."

Since the documentary aired on the 22nd (Sunday) and the concert on the 28th (Saturday), we could assume the album was released sometime between then, perhaps on Tuesday, January 24. Ofc this wouldn't be a sufficient reasoning or source to use for the date. I don't know where else we could look for the actual release date. If anything we could always go with just January 1984. What do you think? Any ideas?

Juand.1974 (talk) 19:14, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To my understanding, albums were generally released on Tuesdays in the 1980s, giving it a release date of January 24th, just as you said. This would give the album enough time to generate enough shipments/sales to achieve a modest chart placement on a minor Billboard chart. Global Release Day did not happen until July 2015, which largely standardized album releases to Friday, although this obviously is not completely universal. We also cannot assume that the album was released on a Tuesday, but this would be my best guess. It's also possible that certain stores obtained copies of the album before its official release. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 19:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should we avoid saying a specific date and go with January 1984, or use the date on the Songbird biography? And, regarding your most recent edit, I don't mind and think it's a good thing. I'm going to try to be more wary of any unnecessary info and be more concise when needed. Juand.1974 (talk) 03:49, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

January 1984 would be the safest bet. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 19:13, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found a source from the 28 January 1984 edition of a British publication known as Music Week, found [7] on page 21. This lists the potential release date from 30 January 1984 - to 3 February 1984. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 13:13, 1 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, perhaps that suggests the album was released a few days later or in February in the UK?

I was looking through some more magazine issues, trying to find more info about the release day. Didn't find anything we didn't know but did find the following:

1. Music Week (page 3) issue that talks about how "McVie has a solo LP also due in February and will be supported by a limited edition cassette telling her story, narrated by Paul Gambaccini, for distribution to dealers and the media". I found that really interesting, first time I've heard about this cassette.
2. Billboard Boxscore section (page 52) that lists how much Christine grossed in her May 28 show ($69,867) + other info about that specific show
3. Found a Record Mirror (page 26) review of the album (they gave it ++, and we could include it)

Juand.1974 (talk) 00:28, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Billboard Boxscore section seems a bit too situational for this article but the Music Week and Record World would be worthwhile additions.

My guess is that it will take a decent amount of time before someone decides to review this article. On the bright side, that will give us more time to refine the article as we see fit. I reached out to Music Connection to see if I could get a physical copy of their Vol. VIII, No. 21 edition of the magazine. If I'm successful, my plan is to upload it to the Internet Archive or submit it to World Radio History. If that occurs, we could use that file as a reference in the article instead of the Blue Letter Archives. No guarantee that this will be successful, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 17:27, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Ray1983a: knows a thing or two about release dates – I wonder if he has any info which might help? Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:59, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Dobbyelf has it right! The earlier article about a February release is correct. The LP was released in the UK on 3 February 1984. The WEA (Warner bros) changed their release dates for the UK from Fridays to Mondays in June 1985 according to my info. So we know it was released there on a Friday. (Not all labels made the change at the same time)

As McVie was a British singer, we should go with the British date, until someone can spot an earlier date for the States. Since it entered Billboard only on 18 Feb, I think we're pretty save though.

As for Tuesdays for the US, that was only standardized during 1989. Before that, LP's could be released on any given weekday, but it turns out mostly Mondays and occasionally other days, like Tuesdays or Wednesdays.

Juand was talking about the first single, not the album Ray1983a (talk) 21:33, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the response. The release date of 3 February 1984 in the UK makes sense, but I'm curious if the album was issued earlier in the United States. For the 28 January 1984 edition of Billboard, the album debuted at number 32 on the Rock Albums Chart, which to my understanding was discontinued later that year. Would that indicate an earlier release date for the Christine McVie album in the United States? Dobbyelf62 (talk) 21:57, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, thanks for your help! I do think the album was released earlier in January in the States, this 28 January Billboard issue shows the album in the Rock Albums chart already (page 24) (as Dobby said).

Anybody know if there's a way we could find or look through a Warner Record's music catalogue? Perhaps even a Rhino one since the seem to be the ones to own Christine's discography. Maybe through there we could find a specific date. I'll keep sorting through magazines and books in the meantime Juand.1974 (talk) 22:00, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ah I see what you mean. I was looking at the "Top Adds' section on that same page. That's why I thought it concerned the single "Gotta hold on me".

Well, it appears the album was out in the US earlier then. Still odd it would enter the regular albumcharts on 18 Feb.. We could add 'United Kingdom' to the release date and see if someone comes up with a US date, at least the article gives correct info then Ray1983a (talk) 22:26, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In the second part of the 2016, Todd does talk about the plan to include Bruton on the backing band. Although he starts talking about him before 3:48, the question reaffirms the subject of the conversation. He talks about how they became friends and at 4:22 he says "and when Christine did her record ... that was the original plan. I'm just gonna get you [Bruton], and Tris is gonna play drums and George is gonna play bass." Although it isn't more explicit, we can infer he's talking about Bruton when he says "you" thanks to the previous minutes of conversation.

However, if adding this isn't considered important for the article, we can keep it removed. Juand.1974 (talk) 15:54, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm interpreting this statement as Todd Sharp describing what McVie told him the original plan was for the backing band, with the "you" as referring to Sharp, who was the first person that McVie had approached. If we were to interpret the "you" as Bruton, then that would imply that Sharp was not part of the original plan for the backing band, which we know is not the case. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 18:46, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think he was talking about it as if he's telling Bruton who's going to be part of the band, since he's been talking about him for a while. But I can definitely understand your take on it. I suppose we would either have to ask Todd directly (as if) or get a third opinion. Since it is a bit vague I say we don't include that as it could be interpreted in many ways. Juand.1974 (talk) 19:20, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with leaving it as is. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 19:24, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In my humble opinion, the previous layout of the track listing, which included the songwriters for each individual track, was more than satisfactory. The four gaps in the writer sections might create some confusion for the reader, which previously was not present in all other versions of the article. Seeing that most of the songs are just variations of Todd Sharp and Christine McVie, it also seems unusual to single out this songwriting partnership for omission from the track listing. I would prefer it if we restored their names back to their rightful locations. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 02:12, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, that's fair. I was still debating how it looked so I appreciate your input Juand.1974 (talk) 02:59, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]