Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Venetian people

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 04:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Venetian people (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Even setting aside the obvious POV (see also the talk page) and terrible grammar, this is one big piece of original research. Not a single verifiable, reliable source is presented attesting to scholarly opinion that a Venetian ethnic group exists. I checked a neutral source myself - David Levinson's Ethnic Groups Worldwide, and found many ethnic groups discussed for Italy: Italians, Sicilians, Friulians, Ladin, Greeks, Gypsies, Jews, South Tyroleans, Albanians, Slovenes, Catalans, Croatians, French, Sardinians, along with more recent arrivals - but nothing about the 10 million Venetians alleged here. This article is a synthesis and a coatrack, and should be deleted. Biruitorul ^Talk 07:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:OR and Biruitorul. Oli ^OR Pyfan! 08:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom.Inmysolitude (talk) 08:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Any regional or subregional name can have "people" added to it and, behold, it becomes an ethnographic topic. The article is a coatrack manifesto for some obscure idea, and the claims it makes are ludicrous. Dahn (talk) 18:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep or Move to "People of Veneto" - I find the article interesting although I am not sure if it could be considered as an "ethnic group". The article should be allowed to mature and a notification to the noticeboard for Italy-related topics should be sent. Also, people who have their own distinct language can actually claim to be an ethnic group. --23prootie (talk) 18:35, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:V is not optional. If there are any reliable sources claiming Venetians as an ethnic group, I'd like to see them. - Biruitorul ^Talk 19:10, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment- found two interesting related articles. Venetism, Venetian People's Unity, Union of the Venetian People, and Venetian People's Movement.
  • The first, though obscure, is an ideology validated by sources; the third are political parties the existence of which is easily confirmed by sources. That is not at all the case with the present article. - Biruitorul ^Talk 19:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment There are such people -- I talked to a guy at Lowe's who claimed that he was a Venetian blind man -- but he didn't seem to have any problems with his eyesight, so I'm dubious about the information. Mandsford (talk) 19:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment There are and were Venetians (citizens of Venice during its heyday, and citizens of the Veneto today). WP has recognized a separate language for these people and has a Wikipedia in it: Venetian language, [1]. But an article on them would best be started from scratch, I think. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:08, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The comment above looks like an endorsement of WP:SYNTH. For one, the existence of a language does not automatically mean the existence of a people to go with it. Secondly, the existence of a regional identity at a time when ethnic and national identities were secondary or very different from what they supposedly are today is not a criterion (or, if it is, then we might as well start calling any such supposed identity an ethnic identity and create articles as such). The singular criterion here should be are they consistently discussed as an ethnicity in present-day third-party sources? They apparently aren't. Dahn (talk) 11:08, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Please all let's avoid WP:Overtagging, also I'd like to hear more input from those familiar with ethnic group histories in Italy to make an informed decision. -- Banjeboi 06:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, if you'd like to examine the Levinson source I mentioned, certainly have a look and browse through these pages. - Biruitorul ^Talk 07:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm hardly historian or even a reference expert. I'd rather simply hear more input from those who are more knowledgeable on the subject. I seen this before on AfD when a less-known fact was dredged up or someone pointed out that gee, this sounds like X subject, I'd rather have a more informed decision is all. -- Banjeboi 08:46, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete OR, and I support Dahn's comment also. dougweller (talk) 08:04, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Original research. Doctorfluffy (robe and wizard hat) 19:57, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I give you all a reference http://www.regione.veneto.it/La+Regione/Statuto+Regionale.htm the article number 2 of the costitutional paper of Regione Veneto made in 1971 and still today fully active, says clearly and use the term : "Venetian People" (Popolo Veneto). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raffaeleserafini (talk • contribs) 17:50, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Do familiarise yourself with WP:PSTS, an official policy: "Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation". - Biruitorul ^Talk 18:00, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete...OR...a dialect does not a people make. For instance: The country of Belgium/Flanders region has hundreds of dialects. Some barely understand each other. But all the people that speak the Teautonic based dialects are Flemish. This article seems to be more what the editor(s) would like rather than what is.--Buster7 (talk) 11:42, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. Is this group the ones that the article is about? I presume Encyclopedia of the Stateless Nations: S-Z is reliable but I might be misreading this as well. -- Banjeboi 12:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or Merge I am normally an inclusionist, but this is one BIG piece of WP:OR, not to mention WP:NPOV violations. This article should be deleted as fast as possible, or merged per ip below.Teeninvestor (talk) 12:18, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or merge with Veneto which does a much better job on the Roman period, Alaric, Attila, and the Venetian Republic, but does not contain linguistic and cultural details found here. -65.246.126.130 (talk) 17:00, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.