Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 July 18

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July 18

The Office

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:The Office task force, et al. The issue of whether these task force projects should have "WikiProject" at the front would benefit from a global nomination.--Mike Selinker (talk) 14:58, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Rename. WP:WikiProject The Office (US) is now a task force and recently has broadened the scope. George Ho (talk) 23:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Dad's Army

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. The issue of whether these task force projects should have "WikiProject" at the front would benefit from a global nomination.--Mike Selinker (talk) 14:59, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Rename. I've converted WP:DAD into a task force. George Ho (talk) 22:53, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Small categories of women poets

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. The Bushranger One ping only 01:22, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Upmerge to all parents. Small categories, unlikely to be expanded. (The two pages in the second nominated category are already in Category:Medieval women poets so do not need to be merged there. Although I also suggested merging Category:Medieval women poets at CFD June 6 since it is currently small, it can clearly be expanded.) – Fayenatic London 21:28, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge there is no reason we need to subdivide out women poets at all possible points. It seems to me that despite directives to the contrary, we have seperate women categories for almost every possible occupation.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Citation templates using redundant parameters

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger One ping only 01:24, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Redundant to Category:Pages containing cite templates with deprecated parameters. This category is populated only by the use of |doilabel= in a citation template. I doubt that parameter is still live, but there is no need for a separate category. -— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 18:37, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I plan on updating the cite templates that support this to use the main category. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:45, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Kollywood playback singers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: result. The Bushranger One ping only 00:06, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Upmerge to Category:Tamil playback singers and delete this. Our articles don't use Kollywood as a term, only Tamil cinema, therefore the parent category is the better titled one. And, Kollywood itself is just a redirect to Tamil cinema. —SpacemanSpiff 17:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:USNA alumni class of 1987

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: upmerge to Category:United States Naval Academy alumni. -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:24, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: It has never been the convention to sub-categorize alumni by year. It opens a can of worms (what if someone graduated undergrad from SCHOOL X in 1987 and then got a master's from the same school in 1989, for example). Jrcla2 (talk) 16:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep, maybe Some of these alumni categories are enormous. USNA has well over a thousand; West Point has even more, and Harvard has seven thousand! Certainly in the case of the service academies there is some interest in those who graduated together, most famously the class the stars fell on (USMA 1915). Mangoe (talk) 19:12, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Size of a category is irrelevant and not an argument for keeping it. Want to make that case for why Category:Living people shouldn't exist? Because if you do, it is directly applicable to this one. Jrcla2 (talk) 05:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    My problem with Category:Living people is that everyone eventually dies; being alive is plainly not defining. I don't see that as having a lot of relevance to this case. Mangoe (talk) 18:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge to Category:United States Naval Academy alumni. There is no upper size limit on categories. The class year of people is not all that defining, especially when you consider that many of the people in some of these categories were getting Ph.D.s where the year they finished is only lossly connected to when they did their course work. We have really never agreed to categorize people by date other than birth and death, and I do not think this is a good place to change that agreement.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, in the case of the service academies, I would disagree. The rough era of graduation at least has an enormous effect on the future of military officers, as evidenced by the case I cited above. Mangoe (talk) 18:16, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep USNA is always exactly 4 years long with no graduate degrees offered, so Jrcla2's and Johnpacklambert's arguments about graduate degrees/studies do not apply here. I definitely agree with Mangoe that there is strong interest in what the various notable members of a USNA class have done. If it weren't for this subcategory, for example, few people would realize that USNA 1987 has both an astronaut currently in the ISS, as well as an NBA Hall of Fame member. Also, Jrcla2 argues that there would be confusion if a person had two class years (doesn't happen at USNA), but that is no more confusing than if a person were in both the Basketball and Football subcategories. Tom Hubbard (talk) 00:21, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, our arguments do apply. "Alumni" does not necessitate graduating. Someone who attended one day of classes is an alumnus, it doesn't mean they have to have stuck it out all four years. It's not more confusing than a sports subcategory because those sports subcategories speak to a broader WP:CATTREE of both USNA alumni and of all other respective college athletes per sport in the United States. Jrcla2 (talk) 05:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    The fact that an astronaut currently on the ISS was in this class is irrelevant to whether or not the category should be kept - WP:ITSUSEFUL aside, we don't categorise based on "current/former", an area that argument wanders into. - The Bushranger One ping only
    Yes, Un-named, I should have said that the class has a member who has been *formerly* shot to the ISS twice and has an NBA Hall of Fame member. Interesting group this class of 1987 of about 1000 people. Tom Hubbard (talk) 04:31, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge - there is no class-by-year tree for USNA graduates, and I don't see any reason for one to be created. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:29, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    The Bushranger, do you think that the Category:Navy_Midshipmen_baseball_players and Category:Navy_Midshipmen_men's_basketball_players categories should exist? They are similar to the Category:USNA_alumni_class_of_1987 category. If you disagree, then please explain why a group of people united by a sport/game is more important than a group of people united by a common 4-year experience at USNA. Tom Hubbard (talk) 04:10, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia catergorises sports players by team. Wikipedia does not categorise alumni by class. Also see WP:OTHERSTUFF. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:31, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Please note the thousands of established categories, cumulatively, of NCAA baseball, men's & women's basketball, football, men's & women's soccer, men's & women's golf, track and field, and tennis athlete subcategories that exist per standard subcategorization. Not a single category, anywhere, ever, can be found for another alumni divided by year. They are not at all similar to alumni by year, because their years are irrelevant. By categorizing alumni by year it implies a graduation date, which according to the definition of "alumni" is not necessitated. Alumni do not necessarily have to be graduates. Jrcla2 (talk) 05:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Right, Jrcla2, alumni do not have to be graduates. That is why this category is about 1987 alumni. If you made it through Induction Day at USNA on July 6, 1983, then you are an alumnus of the USNA class of 1987 -- no graduation date is necessary. Tom Hubbard (talk) 05:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    But it's very misleading nonetheless. It's completely reasonable to assume that if someone is classified under an alumni of 1987 category, that that person graduated in 1987. Here's an example: This past season, Kentucky basketball star Anthony Davis was a freshman, which means he was an anticipated alumnus for Kentucky Class of 2015. But then he was taken in the NBA Draft and will not graduate from Kentucky (probably ever, but certainly not in 2015). Your rationale dictates that he should be included in Category:University of Kentucky Class of 2015. That's an entirely untrue and misleading category for Davis. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge non-standard, excessive level of detail. Like 1987 Pulitzer prize winners. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 10:42, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge - Agree that this is overcategorization that would result in tens of thousands of categories that don't have all that much value to most users. If a given class is really special, then it might be worthy of an article (like the one linked by Mangoe above). Rikster2 (talk) 11:43, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Per TomHubbard: "If it weren't for this subcategory, for example, few people would realize that USNA 1987 has both an astronaut currently in the ISS, as well as an NBA Hall of Fame member." Hmm, how about following standard Wikipedia list article practice and go to List of United States Naval Academy alumni? It's a much more accessible solution. There would be no way for a user to know that an astronaut and an NBA Hall of Famer were in the class of 1987 via this newly created subcategory unless that user clicked on every single article within that subcategory, so there is no useful navigation feature about it. In the prose section of that list article I just proposed there could be a sentence indicating the notable class of 1987ers. A subcategory is excessive, and per Rikster2 it would snowball into tens of thousands of useless alumni by year subcats. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:30, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment If we allow this category, there is no way we will be able to limit categories of this type to the military academies. Even there, the one person I actually know who graduated from West Point resigned to serve a 2-year LDS mission, so his year of graduating did not match up with those he entered the institution with. What with transfering, taking time off, taking 5 years to graduate and what not, even where we can find a graduation date at other universities and colleges this becomes less unifying. Once you consider that at many universities a large percentage of those in alumni categories recieved masters or Ph.D.s from those institutions this clearly becomes a case where we group together a non-coherent group. It just might work with USNA, but we do not want that precedent, because it will not work anywhere else.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:58, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge as others have said. This is splitting too far. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:46, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Albums released only digitally

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger One ping only 01:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Is this a defining feature? Some kind of albums are only released on all kinds of formats... —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:04, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So what policy is this breaking? I see no evidence from the nominator or the delete vote. Lugnuts (talk) 07:03, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not breaking policy, but it is breaking WP:CONSENSUS. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:38, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Los Angeles City Auditors

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering (talk) 23:17, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: These two categories cover the same position; the Auditor's office became that of the Controller in 1925. Per the standard procedure for this sort of thing, they should all be in the same category, under the current name. The Bushranger One ping only 05:00, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pickup Truck Racing

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. The "British" part doesn't yet seem to be needed, but can be added if the need arises.--Mike Selinker (talk) 14:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This category's current title is ambigious, as there is a Pickup truck racing article seperate from Pickup Truck Racing. Was raised at speedy but suggested to be full CFD'd due to the existiance of Category:Pickup truck racing series. The Bushranger One ping only 00:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Formula Three Euro Series Champions

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 July 26. -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:13, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Not a sufficiently high-level series to merit splitting off its champion drivers from the main category. If kept needs to be renamed to Category:Formula 3 Euro Series Champions per the main category. The Bushranger One ping only 00:18, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.