Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2023 January 29

Abhaya Sahu (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Delete rushed through, without any broader participation, with some boilerplate arguements about lack of notability coverage. The notion that Times of India (3 largest newspaper in India, 1.5 million daily readers) could not be used as indicator of notability is ridiculous (whether TOI is reputable source for factual claims is another issue altogether). Checking available materials,

Ping Liz. --Soman (talk) 18:12, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - The Delete was not rushed through; it ran for the full seven days. The above URL Dump is too long. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:34, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse if this is an appeal of the close. The close was the only possible close, as there was no reason to relist. However, the deletion discussion focused on political notability, and the appellant appears to be saying that the subject satisfies general notability. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:34, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Allow Review of Draft to establish general notability as if the deletion had been a Soft Delete, because GNG was not discussed. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:34, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse correct interpretation of a unanimous vote for delete. However no objection to recreation with the above references, subject to its own AFD. Frank Anchor 13:19, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Endorse, allow draft. This person may or may not be notable, but that was the AfD's job, and now DRV's job is to review the AFD closure, which was the only interpretation of 2 delete !votes. ^Clyde!_Franklin! 23:48, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Relist Looking at the massive list of sources is not hugely useful because there are just too many. If you can't meet WP:N with the best 3 or 4, you can't meet WP:N with a wall of them. That said, the discussion didn't really discuss the sources and the level of participation, combined with the quality of the discussion, probably puts it as a WP:SOFTDELETE. That said, please be sure to indicate the 3 or 4 sources you think are best at meeting WP:N even if you list the rest in a collapsed box at the AfD. Hobit (talk) 10:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Relist while it's a low level of participation, on the face of it, crosses the threshold for delete. However, the nomination actually contains no policy/guideline based reason for deletion. Not satisfying NPOL is not grounds for deletion (or retention), it is simply an indication that presumed notability cannot be accorded. Furthermore, the nominee and one of the participants have a history of tag-teaming and canvassing at AfD [1]. Given all this, while one could possibly argue proceedural keep, there's one delete contribution that makes a policy/guideline-based argument. Therefore, I would give less than normal weight to the nomination and the other contribution and would seek more input. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 11:35, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  The AfD nomination was brief, but an unelected politician who fails NPOL is certainly a reason to delete (or Draftify) and this is a common outcome. Election candidates are frequently the subject of promotion, quite understandably, and the sources are usually promotional, non independent, on can be native advertising that is aggressively rejected by Wikipedia.

  Warn the tag teamers that tag teaming is WP:GAMING and could result in them being sanctioned, however, to make a case to sanction them you need to show a more egregious case of deletionism. Ideally, anyone invited to a discussion should declare their invitation. SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:57, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse The comment by M.Ashraf333 in the deletion discussion addresses the quality of the sourcing, "Nothing about him in reliable sources." There was no controversy in the discussion, the comments were based on policy (yes, saying a subject does not meet NPOL is a policy-based statement), and the participation was sufficient. No error in this close. --Enos733 (talk) 16:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, saying a subject does not meet NPOL is a guideline-based statement, just one that has, per se, no bearing on deletion. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 19:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Have you carefully read WP:DEL-REASON#8? Notability guidelines require subjective interpretation appropriate to guideline status, but on making the connection of the appropriate notability guideline, it is pseudo-policy by virtue of explicit inclusion as a reason in WP:Deletion policy. SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:02, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  NPOL (with NPROF) stands in distinction in that it accords *presumed* notability when satisfied, it's not derived from the GNG and therefore failure to satisfy cannot be seen as analogous to failing the GNG and implying a lack of general notability. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 10:22, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I would not disagree with the point made here, but many people use "Fails NPOL", "Fails NPROF", or "Fails NSPORT" as shorthand for both failing the SNG and GNG. I think the argument should be discounted only when another person does suggest that GNG is (or might be) met. - Enos733 (talk) 16:31, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  “Presumed” notability evaporates when the article is nominated at AfD. Presumed notability is a good threshold for starting articles, but by sending to AfD someone has formally challenged that assumption and article proponents have to do better than point to the presumption threshold. Ideally, AfD nominators should address the GNG, but in the absence of any comments on the GNG, the failing of a subguideline is a reason to delete. SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:47, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse, but Draftify given the long list of references. Endorse the AfD close as appropriate. To contest such a deletion, use draftspace and follow the advice at WP:THREE, and submit through AfC and/or ask the deleting admin. This need not take long, it can all happen in a day. DO NOT present dozens of references. If the best three are not good enough, there is virtually no chance that the rest will be better, and it is unreasonable to ask an independent editor to review dozens of references. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:49, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]