Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Darts

Need for more consistency and clarity on end of year rankings on individual players' pages. Does it refer to pre or post World Championship ranking. For example Luke Littler's appears to refer to pre-2024 World Championship whilst Luke Humphries' is representative of post-2024. The general consensus appears to be post-world championship, however I hold the belief that as the world championship is the first tournament of the year, pre-tournament rankings should be represented. LBLM9253 (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is something I've been meaning to ask about as well.

Personally, I'm more in favour of the post-World Championship ranking. I see the 2024 Worlds as the culmination of the 2023 season. I think Littler's post-Worlds ranking of 31 is more indicative of his season and sudden presence at the top of the Order of Merit rather than the ranking of 164 which only represents his 2023 UK Open run as a Riley's Qualifier.

Another instance where I think it works more is with players who fall off the tour. It makes more sense for the ranking to correspond with the year the player's tour card ended in the infobox, like a player losing their tour card at the end of the 2024 season but having a 2024 ranking of 58 which is well inside the usual top 64 cut-off point, as opposed to their post-Worlds ranking of 68 for example. Greenflipper (talk) 03:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's never even sourced anyway so should probably be removed. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 16:38, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Post-WC should be the only point that matters, since that's when the Top 64 is decided in terms of who retains Tour Cards into the next year. 🇮🇪 TheChrisD {💬|✏️} 18:05, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad someone asked this because I’ve been thinking about it several times as well.

Essentially, we have four options. Let’s take the Year-end ranking for 2024 as an example:

a) Pre-2025 World Championship ranking (rank position after the PC Finals; as of 24 November 2024)

b) Pre-2025 World Championship ranking (rank position at the start of the tournament, when prize money from two years prior has already been deducted; as of 13 December 2024)

c) Post-2025 WC ranking (on 3 January 2025)

d) Live ranking as of 31 December 2024 (chronologically the most accurate date, but technically perhaps nonsensical).

I’m fine with options a), b), and c) because they all make sense. Option c) seems technically the most accurate, but it has a drawback: in the Performance timeline table, the 2025 World Championship would already be in the column for 2025, whereas the Year-end ranking – which would be heavily influenced by this tournament – is in the column for 2024, which could be confusing. Penepi (talk) 22:37, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Option c) seems technically the most accurate, but it has a drawback

Well then surely the table needs to change then? I know it's a little confusing with the tournament being numbered for the year that it ends in; but even by the PDC's own admission, it's part of the previous year's season — go to the tournament calendar and the Worlds is always listed as the last tournament of a particular year, rather than the first tournament of the next year.

If we take Littler for example, his table is currently showing end-2023 168th and end-2024 4th; but he technically ended the 2023 season 31st with £202,500 (which is what gave him his 2024 Tour Card); and his 2024 end is TBD until after the Worlds.

In fact, if anything this conversation is now opening up an even bigger can of worms than at first glance. 🇮🇪 TheChrisD {💬|✏️} 13:54, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reading the arguments here, I would have to agree that post-Worlds ranking would be the most suitable. This seems to have been what has been most commonly used and seems the most logical. The argument could be made to move the world championship to the bottom of the results table however as the most prestigious, it arguably should be at the top. The alternative seems to be changing the wording from year-end ranking to post-world championship ranking. LBLM9253 (talk) 21:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree that post-World Championship rankings can be the best option to consider as end year rankings. The World Championship is considered the last event before the Tour Card restart. PDC follows year-long seasons, but their year does not match with the natural year, as other sports' season may do. Dimitar Malamov (talk) 12:19, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should that part of the performance timeline be renamed end of season rankings? (Fran Bosh (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2024 (UTC))[reply]

I would agree on post-World Championship rankings on 3 January. We could go with Fran's suggestion of end of season rankings to make it clearer.

I would like to point out one of the issues with option A and B. Between the Players Championship Finals and the World Championship draw there are World Championship Qualifiers, the winner of which will have £7,500 added to their pre-World Championship rankings, this can in a circumstance affect the seeding for the world championship. If a player is less than £7,500 behind the 32nd ranked player, but has not yet qualified for the World Championship as a ProTour qualifier or international qualifier, but then qualifies through the PDPA's Tour Card Holder Qualifier, they would jump into the seedings for the World Championship as a member of the top 32. It is an unlikely but possible circumstance which either of a or b would struggle to deal with. JamesVilla44 (talk) 00:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The 32 seeds are the top 32 after the Players Championship Finals, the PDPA qualifier does not affect the seeding. Greenflipper (talk) 00:36, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yeah

“2024/25 World Championship

Cut-off date: November 25 2024 (after Players Championship Finals)

Seeds: Top 32 in Order of Merit seeded through to Last 64

Qualifying Players:

Top 32 in Order of Merit

Top 32 in the ProTour Order of Merit not otherwise qualified

32 invitations at the PDC’s discretion (international qualifying Events, PDPA qualifier, PDC Secondary and Affiliate Tours). Full criteria to be published in due course.”

But what does apply is that a player can climb into the top 64 following the PDPA World Championship Qualifier, that was not in the top 64 after the Players Championship Finals. JamesVilla44 (talk) 00:48, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Masters is now ranked and in set play and has been re-named the PDC World Masters. Should we treat it as the Grand Slam was treated when it became ranked? Example: In the performance timeline boxes the Grand Slam is put only in the ranked televised section for all its editions on pages, even though it was non-ranked during the earlier stagings of the event. JamesVilla44 (talk) 23:59, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think some distinction needs to be made as to what information is displayed in these pages. At the moment, the 2025 in PDC article is looking like it's going to be the same as 2025 PDC Pro Tour but even longer which is an issue (see maintenance tag on 2024 PDC Pro Tour). Greenflipper (talk) 16:52, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would appreciate a discussion about this before ranked events begin. Greenflipper (talk) 15:03, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would bring in the creator of the 2025 in PDC page to this JamesVilla44 (talk) 15:29, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

One of the ways to reduce the size would be to have sub-articles, but they’ve had notability issues in the past and been deleted. The only Challenge Tour articles we have are 2022 and 2024 and the only Development Tours are 2022, 2023 (re-created after being accepted by articles for creation) and 2024. The only Players Championship series articles we have are 2021 (re-created with secondary sources added), 2022, 2023 (also re-created with secondary sources added) and 2024. JamesVilla44 (talk) 15:55, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of these were because of poor referencing by banned user JRRobinson, not attempting to use secondary sources when available. JamesVilla44 (talk) 15:56, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I had the idea of keeping the affiliate tours (Asia, N&B etc.) on 2025 in PDC but removing them from 2025 PDC Pro Tour, leaving that page for PCs, ETs and the secondary tours. But I don't know if that's ideal

Sub-articles for CT and DT are fine if they're being accepted Greenflipper (talk) 16:14, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah

2025 PT - PC, ET, CT, DT, WS

2025 PDC - Premier and Televised Events, Affiliated? JamesVilla44 (talk) 16:50, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense to me, but I'll wait for consensus Greenflipper (talk) 16:56, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think I'd agree with that split. OZOO (t) (c) 18:32, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some player pages to the Open Tasks section of the WikiProject that stop abruptly and don't include updates for recent years, just so people are aware and see if anyone is open to updating them. Greenflipper (talk) 21:25, 1 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]