Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ruby Gyang (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. This was a confusing debate to follow. Some of the arguments are clearly untenable without proof, i.e. the assertion that all print media in Nigeria works on bribery. I'm not sure I can say the people arguing for keep proved their case, but it is clear that the only person arguing to delete is the nominator, and that's not enough to delete on. So calling this No Consensus, with WP:NPASR. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:20, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ruby Gyang (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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NN musician, fails WP:MUSICBIO. The prior AfD was withdrawn, but of the sources taken at face value in the withdrawn AfD, the net.ng source is gossip with a pasted-in video, and is concerned more with why her "baby daddy" isn't in the video. Naij is also gossip. Premium Times is an interview, so that's not independent of the subject. Daily Trust is an interview, not independent of the subject. One of those articles points out she got into music in 2010. So in six years she released one EP, and fails the album requirement. There's no indication she tours, has released two albums on a major label, etc. She didn't chart anything, and that her EP was reviewed is a nod to WP:NALBUM, not her. The comp album fails WP:NALBUM, though, and she's not going to inherit notability from it anyway. She doesn't meet the criteria, because the review of the album is the only independent source related to her, and album reviews aren't part of criterion 1, because album reviews are for NALBUM, otherwise the artist would inherit notability from them. Just barely passing one criterion by an extreme stretch of policy isn't good enough. MSJapan (talk) 03:25, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: The subject passes criteria 8 and 10 of WP:MUSICBIO. She was nominated for Best Vocal Performance (Female) at The Headies 2014. The Headies is the not only a major award in Nigeria, it is the biggest in the country. The nominator took the compilation album to AFD, but I've clearly provided sources to counter the nominator's argument. Passing two of WP:MUSICBIO's 12 criteria is sufficient to warrant a stand-alone article.  Versace1608  ^{Wanna Talk?} 00:31, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• @MSJapan: Please stop using charts in your argument when nominating Nigerian-related articles for deletion. You should instead focused your attention on whether or not the subject meets WP:GNG. The music industry in Nigeria and much of Africa isn't well structured.  Versace1608  ^{Wanna Talk?} 00:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: @MSJapan: Please prove to me how these sources (The Daily Times of Nigeria, Premium Times, The Daily Trust, and Naij) are not independent of the subject. The subject doesn't work for or is not affiliated with any of these media outlets. These sources cannot be considered WP:PRIMARY SOURCES.  Versace1608  ^{Wanna Talk?} 10:10, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that I can do. You're referring only to a portion of the overall guideline, instead of the whole thing. "Independent" and "third-party" are not the same. The former means that the subject isn't directly involved with the article at all, and the latter is that the subject has no relationship with the medium or author. So you are entirely correct that these are third-party sources. However, they are not independent, and WP:MUSICBIO#1 specifically excludes interviews from consideration as criteria for notability. They can be used for information, sure, but not to assert notability. The award you claim per #8 is neither given in the article, nor do we at present regard it as such as far as NMUSIC goes. As far as #10 goes, this is where there's a circular notability issue. Honestly, I think we need to open a discussion at NMUSIC - some of the points you bring up indicate there's a systemic issue we need to deal with in some way shape or form, because what you're telling me is that a criterion we use and seems to work for every other article won't work for this country. I can't fix that myself, and I can't arbitrarily not apply guidelines, so I think we need to have a more general guidelines discussion at NMUSIC. MSJapan (talk) 16:09, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@MSJapan: You are misconstruing my statement. I never used the terms "Independent" and "third-party", and never said they were the same. I simply said that the sources I cited above are not WP:PRIMARYSOURCES. Do you expect stub articles to include every vital info? The fact that it wasn't included in the article doesn't take away from its importance. It is flawed to think that every article on Wikipedia are written in their best version. I am not going to respond because I already left a reply to the section you left at NMUSIC.  Versace1608  ^{Wanna Talk?} 23:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  Versace1608  ^{Wanna Talk?} 23:40, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Nigeria-related deletion discussions.  Versace1608  ^{Wanna Talk?} 23:40, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@MSJapan: You are trying hard to refute the fact that the subject meets criteria 8 and 10 of WP:MUSICBIO. Please stop trying hard to refute something that is irrefutable. For your info, the word "major" in criteria 4 of WP:MUSICBIO is subjective. Are you going to tell me that out of all the numerous music awards in the world, only 4 are considered "major"? If you're saying that, you must be joking.  Versace1608  ^{Wanna Talk?} 00:00, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The subject passes criteria 8 and 10 of WP:MUSICBIO..--Obari2Kay (talk) 20:24, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment In Nigeria before a print media make's you a topic on paper you most have paid them, so a person like Ruby Gyang must have paid and that goes with ever other artist like Davido, Wizkid (musician) and more. An common sense is need in written article for artist majorly in West Africa. If an article is to be writing for artist in West Africa we should look at this criteria to gain notability..

1. Major Nominations... Like The Headies, Nigeria Entertainment Awards, MTV Africa Music Awards, All Africa Music Awards, Ghana Music Awards and more..

2. Major music blog's like NotJustOk & tooXclusive are to be use as backup in writing an article...

If the article could meet criteria 8 of WP:MUSICBIO it is set to be notable..--Obari2Kay (talk) 20:26, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Note @Versace1608:, You said MSJapan is trying hard to refute the fact that the subject meets criteria 8 and 10 of WP:MUSICBIO. If i was to add anything to that i would say you did the same thing to the article i recently wrote Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Koker (musician) and now you think he is wrong and you did same thing.. The subject passing criteria 8 and 10 of WP:MUSICBIO doesn't make the article notable, an been nominated or won a major award does not make the article notable as you said versace1608, let me also clear things up as you said.. --Obari2Kay (talk) 20:28, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.